Don’t Act Like a Seller, Think Like a Buyer
Chapter 3: Creating Interest for Customers to Listen to You
While some good sales processes still exist and work,
we came up with a process for short,
DELTA that works.
We like it because it means change.
And change is the ultimate goal of all sales conversations.
The process is relatively simple
and can be applied to virtually any sales field or situation.
It works best with two other factors
that ensure successful sales:
mindset and relationship building.
The five steps in that DELTA process are:
1. Develop a prospect’s interest so they’re willing to hear you out.
2. Engage customers in a meaningful dialogue.
3. Research the situation/problem/difficulty
of potential customers.
4. Present your story after clearly understanding that your product
and service can solve the customer’s situation,
problem or difficulty.
5. Ask for commitment at the right time.
Because these topics are so important,
each topic will be covered in a separate chapter.
And I’m starting
from where every conversation in sales should begin,
which is developing customer interest
– getting customers interested in what you have to say.
“Dream BIG dreams!
Only big dreams have the power to move your mind and spirit.”— Brian Tracy
FIRST STATEMENTS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT
If it’s true, as the saying goes,
that impressions of the other person usually
form in the first 30 to 60 seconds,
and that those impressions last a long time,
then your first words
– even during the first meeting
or the fiftieth meeting
– still very important.
Traditional greetings like:
“Is everything okay?”
or “Did you have any fun this weekend?”
not alluring ways to start a story.
generic opening sentences can still be accepted
if your relationship is already good,
and the listener is too close
to immediately understand that you are real.
In such cases,
the listener knows
that you are really interested in knowing how their weekend was.
But as a rule,
usually sentences like “Is everything okay?”
or “How was work?” really don’t care at all.
Understanding the importance of your first statements
and preparing for what you are about to say is crucial.
If you already know something interesting about a customer’s situation,
how will you communicate that information?
You need to use statements that you’ve researched,
and are interested in,
because who doesn’t want the audience
to respond with,
“Oh, I didn’t know that. Great!”
You need to because the first words often determine
whether the customer
(or potential customer) wants to prolong the conversation
or just want to end it.
There are five principles to pique customer interest:
1. Research and find interesting things
to start the conversation.
2. Use opening sentences to create a sense of security.
3. Make the conversation worthwhile
before you even start making a sale.
4. Create relationships that can help customers/potential customers.
5. Clearly define what information you need
to know and figure it out.
But how exactly can you apply these principles to everyday practice?
“Your greatest asset is your earning ability.
Your greatest resource is your time.”— Brian Tracy
RESEARCH AND FIND INTERESTING THINGS TO START A DIALOG
It is obvious that if the other person does not want to listen to you,
you will not sell them anything.
If they don’t want to listen,
they won’t hear the most eloquent,
most meaningful business story in the world you’re telling.
First you have to make people want to listen first.
Getting people to listen to you is a function
of how much you know,
how well you present what you know,
how creative you are in organizing your ideas when you present,
how you use how much time it takes
to prepare for a sale,
and how much genuine interest you show
in communicating with customers and prospects.
One way to start a conversation is
to mention something unique,
and relevant that the potential customer doesn’t know about.
You can do a few searches on the Internet to find out things
that other people don’t normally know
but will pique the curiosity.
If you’re selling sleep-related items
such as mattresses,
window light curtains,
potential customers may be interested in two innovations
from thousands of the past year has dramatically changed human sleeping habits:
Levi Hutchins invented the alarm clock in 1788;
a clockmaker in Concord,
and invented the first very successful commercial filament light bulb
around 1879 by Thomas Edison.
If you are selling antidepressants and you tell a doctor
He said, “I read on the Internet
and was intrigued to find out
who is considered the father of the word depression.
I wonder if they teach such things in medical school?”
A normal doctor would say,
“No, who is that?”
and so you got people interested.
(Answer: it was John Burton.
He wrote a thesis in 1650,
“A Study of Melancholy,”
and became the first to coin the term depression.)
The key point here is that unimportant
but unique information
(rather than things one might already know)
pique the customer’s interest.
But that information must be relevant.
You shouldn’t just rush in and ask,
“Do you know who the 1967 Super Bowl winner was?”
That’s not a good idea,
because it may have nothing
to do with what the prospect is interested in,
nor with your sales message.
(But if it works, that’s another story.)
If I were selling copiers,
I’d love to know who came up
with the first idea to copy everything mechanically.
If I were to sell fax machines,
I would want to let customers know that the patent
for the fax machine was granted in 1843.
If I were to sell computers,
I would want to understand the full story of Bill Gates.
One could argue that Gates,
the most influential person on personal computers,
became rich not only
because of his intelligence
but also because of his mother.
I wanted to tell his story
because there was a good chance it would generate interest.
What many people don’t know is
that three of the four richest people in America haven’t graduated from college.
Bill Gates has not graduated from college;
Oracle’s Larry Ellison hasn’t graduated from college;
and Paul Allen of Charter Communications also did not graduate from college.
When you mention something that a customer
or potential customer may not be aware of,
but that is relevant
to your product or service
(or to the condition it refers to),
they will be very impressed to care about.
Do some research yourself
before you go to the client.
Use the Internet to find facts / statistics /
trivia about the client’s business or industry.
Share with them something,
facts that are interesting
or related to your product
(if you can present it creatively,
all the better).
Another form is consulting
or customer feedback on a related issue,
so that you can “naturally” refer to your product.
Consulting with customers almost always generates interest on their part,
because most people love to give opinions.
The key point is not to let the prospect feel that you are asking
with the intention of using their feedback to “sell” them.
When I advise people to say something interesting,
they often think they have to do something fun
or say something new and original,
but it’s not really necessary.
You can amuse yourself
without having to amuse yourself.
If people believe you really care about them,
they will probably care about you in return.
Your interest generates customer interest,
and your diligence in finding information will dictate
how you conduct your business.
“The two most powerful things in existence:
a kind word and a thoughtful gesture.” – Kenneth Langone
USE INTRODUCTIONS THAT CREATE A SAFETY
There are many salespeople
who often start a meeting by signaling,
“This is a sales contact.”
They use the traditional
and recognizable language of the sales world like,
“Today I want to talk to you about…”
or “Have you ever thought about…” or,
in a Retailers are like,
“Can I help you?”…
All of these phrases are a signal to potential customers
that they’re about to hear a cliché:
“I would like to introduce you to my products
and services and hope you will buy it.”
Doing so will not create a sense of security,
nor will it create interest.
It puts potential customers on the defensive
and is too sensitive to any sales pressure.
Whenever I’m in contact with a client or prospect,
I open up a sales conversation by saying,
“We do business with many companies
and take pride in our work,
but that’s not the case.
Doesn’t mean we’re right for you.
The only way for me to know if our service is right
for what you want is
to learn more about your situation.
Before introducing our company’s ability
to provide excellent service,
allow me to ask you a few questions…”
All those who heard me say that answered,
“Okay, just go ahead and ask.”
I usually start with the following question,
“Can you tell me, how did you get to this position?”
because I want them to talk about their current ministry.
What was their previous job? In response,
many people will tell you their life story.
Others will just say,
“Yes, I was a director before
at the county level in Dallas,
and now I’m the regional director in Birmingham.”
To keep the conversation going,
I usually say,
“Tell me a little bit about your duties
After they told me their work,
I continued, “What are you striving to achieve
[in a particular area of interest to both parties]?”
Whether there are one
or six people in the room,
all will allow you to ask that question.
You come to help them, but to do that,
you have to understand their situation.
Your clear purpose will generate interest,
because from the very beginning,
you have said that you are not sure
if your service is right for them.
In order for them to accept that you have a credible offer,
simply let them know that you are doing business
with companies they know.
That doesn’t mean what you have is right for them
– and you realize it
– but the point is,
from there they will give you an entrance ticket.
Valerie Sokolosky of Valerie & Company says that the first thing she does
when she calls a prospect
(she always makes her first contact by phone)
is to build a relationship with simple questions,
““ Please tell me about you!”
“How long have you worked for this company?”
“Oh, you must have seen a lot of changes?”…
She wanted to show her concern before trying
to understand the company’s problems.
“If I can’t make my clients feel that I care about them first,
I won’t be able to win their hearts,” says Valerie.
Do customers feel that I care about them from the bottom of my heart?
I call because I think I’m providing a useful service to them,
but I always say,
‘Before I discover the needs of the unit,
tell me a little bit about your business,
and the work he/she undertakes in the unit’.
I also told them from the start that I might
or might not be the right choice,
but that’s why I called,
just to answer it with them.”
Valerie says she very rarely loses a sale
once a client realizes their need.
She added, “A client just told me,
‘Thank you for your quick response,’
because I called them right back as promised.
She said I should come speak at one of their conferences,
because I’m a good fit for that.
In my opinion,
what she said was not
because I had successfully made a deal,
but because she felt I was very real;
I’m not authorized to sell if my service
really doesn’t meet her needs.
By the time a relationship has been built
(that’s the number one thing)
and they’ve come to believe that my reputation
and experience are what they’re looking
for (that’s the second most important thing),
a The sale will automatically complete.
I don’t need to
put pressure on the sale.”
What would Ms. Valerie do in a situation
– which is very common
– when the call was diverted to
(or had to go through) an assistant general manager?
She said, if the assistant really wants to help the boss
and has an open attitude,
“However, you can run into authorities,
and they answer you with things like,
‘Well, I still have to look at a lot of different companies.
We have to survey many more suppliers.
We also had to compare her prices with others.’
That shows right away that people are concerned about price
and not professional advice.”
Valerie also said that if that’s the case,
you should be aware that,
unless you can get past the assistant,
she will be the “gatekeeper”
and certainly not a supporter.
“If you don’t win her over,
she won’t want to continue listening to you.
If you’re just like everyone else,
then no matter who you are
or what you say,
there’s nothing you can do.
You can do everything right,
but there is still a roadblock.
And if you didn’t get over it,
you won’t get over it.”
Another way to handle this situation is
to treat the “gatekeeper” like a customer.
When she sees that you behave differently from others,
and you bring safety to her boss,
you will be trusted to let go.
In most sales situations,
there is always some pressure that comes naturally;
That’s because you want your potential customer to think
or act in a way they haven’t thought of at all.
Creating a safe environment is to eliminate
as much pressure as possible on the customer,
so that they can listen to what you have to say
and think clearly about what you are offering.
We need to show people that this is a sales conversation,
not a sales contact.
In a pitching dialogue,
two (or more) people build a meaningful dialogue about the topics
and real concerns of both parties.
They try to learn from each other important things
that they can use to improve their situation
In contrast, in a traditional sales contact,
the salesperson tries to win an order.
But almost no one wants to talk
to someone they feel is intent on selling them something,
whether it’s a product,
or an ideology.
However, if you are trying to sell something,
but have a more effective approach,
people will still talk to you.
For example, you say,
“If this product meets your needs [or solves your problem],
you will buy it.
But if it’s not something you’d like to buy,
just say don’t buy it.
I won’t force you to decide.”
The less pressure you put on your customers,
the more likely you are to direct them
to new possibilities
– your products and services.
One of the best ways to take the pressure off
is by asking questions.
Oftentimes, salespeople are taught
how to ask the kind of questions that get the answer “Yes.”
In fact, many authors have argued
that salespeople should make it easy
for people to say “yes”.
Those authors teach salespeople to start
by asking questions that get potential customers used to saying “yes”
and then finally say “yes”
when we offer them a purchase.
I don’t agree with that.
I believe that good salespeople
(who understand that it’s important
to take the pressure off customers or prospects)
do the exact opposite.
A good salesperson makes it easy for a customer
or potential customer to say “No”.
By asking questions that make it easy for customers to say “No,”
good salespeople create a safe environment
in which to continue to build relationships.
A simple example:
whenever I phone someone for business,
I first ask,
“Is it convenient to talk now?”
By doing so, I allowed them to say “No.”
If they say “Yes,”
it means they have given me permission to speak,
and I know they are willing to listen to me.
Also, I will continue to contact the person
who told me they want me to contact them again within a month.
I send them an e-mail
or leave a message,
“You asked me to get back in touch;
I don’t know how your situation is now,
if your priorities have changed,
or if you are still interested in the matter.
If it’s still there, please call me.”
The above message gave me two or three reasons
for clients to respond to me
(“Our priorities haven’t changed;
we’re still interested;
call back next month.”)
I’ve given them many suggestions to chances
for them to tactfully answer me “No.”
they sensed that I wasn’t putting any pressure on them,
and when they said “Yes,”
they meant it.
Consider the following simple question,
“Would you like to meet on Thursday or Friday?”
In typical sales courses,
people are trained
to ask similar questions to encourage customers
to choose a certain date for the appointment.
Doing so leaves the customer with no other choice.
Most people will immediately feel pressured
to be put in such situations.
And if the client feels that way before a meeting,
what do you think the meeting will be like?
Are they willing to listen to you openly,
or just be on the lookout for other pressures?
Here’s another way to ask a similar question,
“Let’s take a look at both sides’ schedules.
My calendar is relatively free.
What days of the week are convenient for you?”
Or if you will have to go to their area,
say: “I plan to return to the city the week of the 15th.
What day of the week is favorable for you
because I can change the schedule?”
Ask customers open-ended questions,
giving them an outlet
or an opportunity to say,
“There are no good days.”
No choice, no pressure.
By using words like these,
you create a comfortable
and positive psychological state
where the client does not feel cornered.
When it comes to the meeting,
they’re more likely to be interested in how you can help them,
not how you tie them into your problems,
no matter how skillful you are whatever.
Mr. Rich Harshaw of Y2 Marketing,
a marketing consulting firm in Grapevine,
Texas, goes much further.
He always finds a way to make it difficult
for customers to say the word “yes”.
Below, in a video recording of Mr. Harshaw’s employee training program,
is an excerpt of a sales contact
with a real estate company executive.
This operator has come up
with a piece of software
and wants to sell it in the market.
He wanted to ask Harshaw’s marketing company
to recommend some samples of packaging for this software CD.
Harshaw tells the prospect ahead of time:
“I’ll tell you straight up what I think.
Hope it doesn’t offend you:
every idiot has it
to give you a logo and colors.
But here’s the bottom line:
what the hell are you going to do with this CD?”
The customer replied:
“The product needs to have packaging
– a CD case.
We need to sell products.”
Harshaw said: “Nobody cares what a CD case looks like…
You need to see that we’re putting all our efforts into making something
that no one will ever look at.
What they need is what the software can do.”
“Hey… Rich, you need to lower your voice.
We are working professionally here.
Please calm down a bit.”
“I don’t care if we have a contract with you or not.
But if you’re putting all your trust in an advertising agency
to create this logo identity packaging,
I know for sure what will happen.
He is putting expectations on it
because it looks appealing.
But you won’t make any sales.
I’ve seen this happen many times,
it’s going to take my time
and make me throw up.”
Harshaw admits to being very aggressive,
he is sure that not all potential customers are ready
to welcome what his company Y2 Marketing has to offer.
“But our company is more interested in changemakers than customers,”
said Edward Earle,
the company’s president.
And although the real estate executive didn’t buy Y2 Marketing’s marketing services
(which many others did),
Harshaw says that, if he had to do it all over again,
he wouldn’t do anything else,
either still say the same.
“Any business has many customers who think like me.
There is no reason to cling to a customer.”(1)
That’s not a technique I would encourage people to do,
because that would make you appear too arrogant and conceited.
At first glance,
Mr. Harshaw’s approach seems
to contradict the notion that you need
to create a safe environment for customers
and potential customers,
but in fact, doing so creates a safe environment with safe.
It shows that unemotional honesty is appropriate in this buying
and selling dialogue.
That method can be useful in certain situations,
with certain customers.
the truth is rarely revealed
unless there is a safe environment,
no matter how that environment is created.
“Set excellent performance as your standard
and strive to achieve it each day.”— Brian Tracy
BE BENEFITS BEFORE YOU START SELLING
Another thing to do is to share things with customers
and prospects to help them,
even before the first meeting.
There are many ways to benefit them;
but you need to do it as a habit,
not as a belated thought.
For example, you read in a newspaper
and learn that a client company is struggling with profitability,
and you have just read a good book about how to increase profits
without changing your business to change corporate culture.
One way to add value before a meeting
with a client is to immediately mail the book
to them with a note:
“I happened to read it in the newspaper
and learned that one of the problems you are dealing
with is a problem disassembly is profit,
and I think you should read this book.”
This is an inexpensive,
and profound idea that they are sure to appreciate.
Such things can be done before you know
for sure what your customers value,
but only when you already know what is important to them.
If I know that one of my clients is looking for a head of training,
I can benefit by referring someone
I think would be a good fit for the job.
If I knew they were looking for a secretary,
or someone who could work as an accountant part-time,
I would try to connect with them.
Doctors are always grappling with how to manage the care of their clients.
Therefore, any article
or book about how to improve the quality
of medical examination
and organize the examination quickly
is valuable to this type of customer.
The things you give them
before the meeting will be appreciated by them,
and make them more interested in talking to you.
It’s easy for them to talk about their business
or their personal lives
– whatever matters to them.
I once attended a meeting with a prospect responsible
for the effectiveness of the sales team in a unit of 5,000 salespeople.
I’m not there to sell you.
I met him once and he told me about his work.
I also told him about my work,
and he told me
that his company had started a sales improvement program six weeks earlier.
He said he would be very grateful if I could come
and see what they are doing
to see if they have done anything wrong.
I said I am very willing.
I pushed back another business trip
so I could spend an hour and a half with him,
and when we met,
I said, “Tell me what you’re up to.”
I took notes on what he said,
and when I was done,
I said, “When the employee
I give you their recommendations,
you have to make sure that this is here,
During the conversation,
he deliberately made it possible
for me to offer our company’s services.
But I told him,
“I don’t want to discuss that with you right now.”
He wanted to know why.
if you decide to go down the same path with us,
we can do it the way your organization operates.
But if I were you,
I wouldn’t discuss it,
unless and until your organization determines it’s a need.
If they determine it’s a need,
and I will have a discussion.
If they determine that it is not one of the urgent needs,
then you need to ask them why not.
Maybe they’ll have a good answer,
but you have to decide.
But hey, only after your organization has researched it
and found it to be a need,
tell me about the issues you think we can help with.”
I said he needed the support of the organization,
which is exactly what he was doing.
The organization will answer
and tell you their problems,
and how to solve them.
As project executive,
it’s his job to make sure the organization asks the right questions.
I tried to suggest questions to him that,
from my experience,
I think they might not have noticed.
I said he should raise those questions in the discussion,
but let the salespeople decide for themselves the right solution
from the available solutions.
“I’m predicting what they’ll answer,” he said.
“Don’t waste your time guessing.
Just wait until they reply.
If they determine what we’re doing is necessary,
and if you want to have a dialogue with us,
that’s when we’ll do it.”
I was looking for ways to benefit him
without trying to sell anything,
and honestly we didn’t know
what we were going to have to sell him either.
The prospect tried to turn the conversation into a sale,
but I didn’t let him do it
because it wasn’t cool.
If I let you turn that conversation into a sales pitch,
I wouldn’t do exactly what I’m preaching.
He failed to demonstrate that his organization wanted
to train salespeople on how
to build strong business relationships.
He just believes that this is important,
but if the organization doesn’t believe
that then all training will fail,
no matter how much I think it’s worth.
If things don’t work out after that,
I usually turn a relationship into a friendship;
and if later, if it finds our services suitable,
the other client’s organization will come
to the conclusion that it should do this,
this… without me having to convince them.
I also figured,
if you call me,
we’ll have an in-depth conversation.
I’ll go from the macro to the micro:
how many salespeople are there,
how often do they meet,
how do they learn remotely,
how do they apply what they’ve learned?
what role the coaching staff will play,
and who will be the decision makers.
Those are the points that tell me exactly about the situation,
problem, or challenge of this organization.
There are many ways to add value to your customers,
but like I said,
you have to make it a habit,
not a belated thought.
If you come up with a thought
or an idea that’s helpful to them,
you’ll never lose out
– as long as you’re careful not to become a gossip.
In order to deliver value to your customers,
you need to conduct research
to find out what is not only of interest to them,
but very important to them.
It’s much easier to find the things
that are important to them than the things they find valuable.
You can read about the company on the Internet
and pay attention
to what the business newspapers are saying about it.
Maybe it’s not just a company problem,
but also an industry problem.
The airline industry may be struggling
with the supply chain,
while you know that the medical device
business has already developed supply chain systems,
so you can only It turns out
that although this is a completely different industry,
it is still possible to apply certain ideas
that are relevant to aviation.
“Success comes when you do what you love to do,
and commit to being the best in your field.”— Brian Tracy
CREATE LINKS THAT CAN HELP CUSTOMERS
You can develop interest by connecting people with others.
Say something like:
“Hey, the other day,
while driving down the street I thought of you,
and I think you should meet this person, because…”
You are Sincerely trying to help them,
not trying to manipulate them.
Everyone finds this interesting,
because it represents one of the basic human characteristics. Human
People always want to associate with people
who can help them in many areas of life.
So if you’re thinking how to get people’s attention then ask yourself,
how can you help people in all different areas of life.
One possible way is to help potential customers connect
with three groups of people you already have relationships with:
1. The people inside your organization are critical to customer success:
these are the people
who can help customers do their jobs well.
These people can include customer service staff,
– anyone who can make your job easier
– or can also make it impossible.
I have sometimes found that using an outside person
(in this case, a customer) can help identify and build relationships
that are either invisible to those inside the organization,
or for subtle reasons,
which cannot be “started”.
“Effective performance is preceded
by painstaking preparation.”— Brian Tracy
2. People who are outside of your organization
but are critical to customer outcomes.
They can be anyone,
but not in the customer’s organization.
They may be suppliers,
consultants, or trade journalists.
“The universe is completely balanced and in perfect order.
You will always be compensated for everything that you do.”— Brian Tracy
3. People who are critical to your client’s career success:
they can be contacts you have
within your client’s company
or in other organizations.
They are the ones who will share their knowledge
and experiences with you.
Henry Potts is the National Sales Manager for Melillo Consulting in Somerset,
New Jersey. Melillo is a business
and technology system integrator,
and also a distributor of Hewlett-Packard products.
Henry Potts has shown that understanding the relationships
of the people in the organization he is pitching
to is crucial to his business.
“There are so many ranks in an organization,
and your questions should depend on
the rank of the person you’re talking to,
as well as what you know about the job they’re doing.
This is something that you must be very careful
and sensitive about when dealing
with a customer.
For example, if I’m talking to someone at the head of the IT department,
my questions shouldn’t revolve around reducing operating costs,
or reducing headcount,
because that is none of his business.
You have to put things in order that they are personally interested in.
If I was talking to his boss,
or to the chief technology officer
– who cares a lot about budgets
– I would address it differently,
and raise other questions.”
Henry Potts adds,
“Understanding an organization is crucial
before you start a conversation.
A key element in sales contact planning is understanding the position
of the person you are contacting and their motivations.”
These insights will help you decide
what kind of relationship you should establish
with your prospect,
“Customer service represents the heart of a brand
in the hearts of its customers.” – Kate Nasser
DEFINITELY WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW
If you want to make sales communications successful
and valued by customers
– and you really are seen as different from other salespeople
– you need to be prepared for both the content
and the state of the conversation
to contact that customer.
Content includes everything you are prepared to ask,
learn, and discuss;
status is the psychological environment
– or emotional state
– that you create to set yourself apart from other salespeople,
and quickly make customers want
to participate in this communication,
as well as can help prolong the conversation.
The goal of good preparation is
to establish a low-pressure environment
that builds trusting relationships
and delivers trustworthy messages.
You should prepare the content
for each sales contact by asking yourself:
What do I want to know and what do I want to share?
You need to be prepared to communicate personally,
and about your own business.
Through careful preparation of your words and actions,
you have created an environment that people want to respond to.
Where there is trust and strong cooperation,
there will be less sales pressure.
The “environment” you have to create here is psychological safety
for the potential customer.
From the moment you start speaking,
you will have to make the other person feel secure.
When potential customers feel secure,
they will feel more comfortable
and open to communication;
They can tell you the truth,
as well as the real problems,
because they believe you want to help them.
(Also, potential customers always understand that,
if they buy from you,
they are helping you too,
which makes it even harder for other sellers to invade your “territory”).
In the field of sales,
a balanced combination of tight content and
Safety creates the greatest likelihood of success,
because people often buy emotionally
and rationally justify their purchases.
So you need to create an emotional contact rather than a rational one.
The more open and honest the environment,
the more opportunities there are for potential customers
to follow your arguments with an open mind.
It may take a while for you
to align your words correctly to create optimal quality
for both the content
and the state of the contact,
but it will make your sales more expensive effective.
Think and plan carefully
for both as you prepare your first words.
Since you’ve purposely built interest in the first place,
you’ll have a much more valuable
and successful conversation.
Your customers will want to listen to you more,
not try to avoid you.
In fact, they are often willing
to engage in an in-depth dialogue with you.